並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E9%A2%A8%E6%BD%AE%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E7%82%BA%E7%94%9F%E6%B4%BB%E9%BB%9E%E6%92%AD-%E9%A2%A8%E6%BD%AE%E4%B8%89%E5%8D%81%E9%80%B1%E5%B9%B4%E7%B6%B2%E8%B7%AF%E9%9B%BB%E5%8F%B0/%E8%88%92%E5%A3%93%E7%89%B9%E8%AA%BF%E6%88%91%E5%BE%88%E8%AA%8D%E5%91%BD%E6%8E%A5%E5%8F%97%E4%B8%80%E5%88%87%E7%82%BA%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC%E4%BE%9D%E7%84%B6%E4%B8%8D%E5%BF%AB%E6%A8%82%E6%A5%8A%E5%AE%9A%E4%B8%80-OlvGapbScjz/