並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E7%BE%8E%E5%9C%8B%E6%85%95%E4%B8%BB%E5%85%88%E9%8B%92%E6%95%99%E6%9C%83/2021-6-19-%E5%85%A7%E5%9C%A8%E7%94%9F%E6%B4%BB%E9%A5%97%E5%AE%B4-%E8%88%87%E7%8E%8B%E5%90%8C%E5%9D%90%E5%B8%AD-%E4%B8%89-mWpQ-8SHnLg/