並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E6%A6%AE%E8%80%80%E8%8F%AF%E7%88%BE%E8%A1%97-%E9%83%AD%E5%93%B2%E6%A6%AE%E5%88%86%E6%9E%90%E5%B8%AB-%E6%91%A9%E7%88%BE%E8%AD%89%E5%88%B8%E6%8A%95%E8%B3%87%E9%A1%A7%E5%95%8F%E8%82%A1%E6%9C%89%E9%99%90%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8-LY5heotSDVc/