並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%A4%A7%E8%8F%AF%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B%E6%8A%95%E9%A1%A7/20211013%E9%98%AE%E8%95%99%E6%85%88-%E5%88%86%E6%9E%90%E5%B8%AB%E9%87%91%E8%9E%8D%E6%9B%BC%E5%93%88%E9%A0%93-LQ-JM6wvVIW/