並前往https://www.listennotes.com/de/podcasts/%E9%82%A3%E5%80%8B%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E5%8F%B2/%E6%A9%9F%E9%81%87%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E7%94%A8%E4%B8%9F%E7%A1%AC%E5%B9%A3%E5%89%B5%E4%BD%9C%E7%9A%84%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82-t2sDTuXQyFB/