並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep65-%E8%A2%AB%E6%95%99%E5%8F%AC%E4%BA%86%E6%B7%A6-%E8%B7%9F%E5%96%AE%E5%A5%A7%E7%BE%A9/id1500839292?i=1000489181849