並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep28-%E7%90%86%E8%B2%A1%E5%B9%AB%E5%B9%AB%E5%BF%99-%E9%9B%B6%E8%82%A1%E6%90%B6%E7%BF%BB%E5%A4%A9-%E5%A5%88%E7%B1%B3%E8%82%A1%E6%9D%B1%E7%95%B6%E8%B5%B7%E4%BE%86-%E5%B0%8F%E8%B3%87%E5%85%A5%E8%82%A1%E5%B8%82-%E5%83%B9%E5%B7%AE-%E7%B4%80%E5%BF%B5%E5%93%81%E6%88%91%E9%83%BD%E8%A6%81-ft-%E9%9B%B6%E8%82%A1%E9%81%94%E4%BA%BA%E5%BC%B5%E7%90%A8%E7%90%B3/id1571066725?i=1000559277185