並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-14-%E4%BA%A4%E9%80%9A-%E6%89%93%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF-%E5%85%B6%E5%AF%A6%E6%98%AF%E9%96%8B%E8%BB%8A%E4%B8%8A%E8%B7%AF%E5%96%94/id1530132693?i=1000505638373