並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep77-%E5%BE%90%E6%A3%9F%E8%8B%B1-%E5%BE%9E%E8%A8%93%E7%B7%B4%E8%BB%8D%E4%BA%BA%E9%AB%94%E8%83%BD%E7%9A%84%E6%95%99%E5%AE%98%E5%88%B0%E7%82%BA%E9%95%B7%E8%80%85%E7%94%9F%E6%B4%BB%E5%93%81%E8%B3%AA%E8%91%97%E6%83%B3%E7%9A%84%E6%95%99%E7%B7%B4-%E5%8B%95%E5%B0%B1%E5%B0%8D%E4%BA%86-%E6%9C%AC%E9%9B%86%E6%9C%89%E8%B4%88%E6%9B%B8%E6%B4%BB%E5%8B%95/id1546838569?i=1000569619755