並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep22-%E6%93%8D%E4%BD%9C%E6%83%B3%E6%B3%95-%E5%8F%B0%E7%A9%8D%E9%9B%BB%E9%81%AD%E5%A4%96%E8%B3%87%E6%8F%90%E6%AC%BE-%E7%9F%BD%E6%99%BA%E8%B2%A1%E5%92%8C%E9%9B%B6%E4%BF%A1%E4%BB%BB%E8%B3%87%E5%AE%89%E6%9E%B6%E6%A7%8B/id1602637578?i=1000557805338