並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep105-%E9%96%8B%E5%B7%A5%E5%A4%A7%E5%90%89-%E7%BE%8E%E8%82%A1%E9%9D%9E%E8%BE%B2-%E8%B2%A1%E5%A0%B1%E9%87%8D%E9%BB%9E%E5%88%86%E4%BA%AB/id1546879892?i=1000550247718