並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-61-%E8%82%A1%E5%B8%82%E8%A1%93%E8%AA%9E%E5%B0%8F%E6%95%B4%E7%90%86-%E7%B5%A6%E6%8A%95%E8%B3%87%E6%96%B0%E6%89%8B%E7%9A%84%E5%90%8D%E8%A9%9E%E8%A7%A3%E9%87%8B/id1490748040?i=1000507137251