並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E6%B7%B1%E5%A4%9C%E6%89%93%E9%9B%BB%E8%A9%B1-%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%83%E9%80%9A-podcast%E7%95%8C%E7%9A%84%E6%9C%AC%E7%94%B0%E9%80%9F%E4%BA%BAwith%E9%98%BF%E7%89%B9%E8%8C%B6%E6%B0%B4%E9%96%93chardin/id1539361719?i=1000567366966