並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/ep59-300%E5%BC%B5%E8%82%A1%E7%A5%A8%E5%AD%98%E8%82%A1%E8%A1%93-ch5-%E7%94%A8%E6%9C%AC%E7%9B%8A%E6%AF%94%E5%88%A4%E6%96%B7%E5%90%88%E7%90%86%E5%83%B9-%E4%BD%8E%E5%83%B9%E8%B2%B7%E9%80%B2%E5%A5%BD%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8/id1541450581?i=1000526347198