並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/be/podcast/ep24-%E7%BE%8E%E8%82%A1%E8%B2%A1%E5%A0%B1%E5%85%AC%E5%B8%83%E5%89%8D%E5%BE%8C%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E6%93%8D%E4%BD%9C-%E6%B3%A2%E5%85%8B%E5%A4%8F%E8%82%A1%E6%9D%B1%E6%9C%83%E5%BF%83%E5%BE%97%E8%A3%9C%E5%85%85/id1546879892?i=1000519790939